Aeneas sacrificing to his household Penates
An example of a representative of a household god1. Compare Ascanius' idea of piety (257) to Lavinia's near the bottom of p. 22. Discuss.
2. Why is "Mother Wolf" (258) an appropriate nickname for Lavinia?
3. What are the implications of Ascanius not having any children?
4. What seems to you to be th emostl likely explanation for the Penates (the household gods, who were probably represented by clay sculptures and ceramic pots) of Troy appearing in Lavinium, and disappearing from Alba Longa? (263-264)
5. What evidence is there that Silvius is or will become an effective ruler?
6. There is some evidence that Lavinia turns into a non-human animal. What kind of animal would you guess?
7. Why do you suppose the author has Lavinia change into some kind of animal?
16 comments:
Sang Eun
2. Why is "Mother Wolf" (258) an appropriate nickname for Lavinia?
They wanted to put a fence around it all, but I forbade it. "Wolves, queen," old Girnus said - "bears -!" And I said, "There are no bears in Albunea, and if a wolf comes here I will call him brother." They took that saying back to Lavinium, and some people called me Mother Wolf, after that.
The Mother Wolf is an appropriate nickname for Lavinia, because she doesn't want to put fence around to prevent wolves' attack. I think that she is trying to connect herself with wolves and it reminds me of when Lavinia went to the she-wolf's cave with Pallas when she was young. There, the she-wolf was paying attention to protecting her babies from strangers. Like the she-wolf, Lavinia also tries to protect her son, Silvius from Ascanius. She is being very protective over Silvius and doesn't want to leave him alone until he fully becomes an adult. Here, she is acting like that she-wolf. I consider that the nickname, Mother Wolf is suitable for her to have.
Heather Rhee
Q1
A
In p.22, there is a part where it describes Laivinia's idea of piety. Lavinia thinks that a person who is responsible, faithful to duty,and open to awe is piety.
However, Ascanius' idea of piety is different. For him, piety is a man's obedience to the will of higher powers.
These two ideas are very different. It is not even related to each other.
I think Lavinia's idea is making more sense because for me, piety is a word for a strong religious belief. When people have a strong belief toward god, they become responsible to be a better believer for the god and they become faithful toward god. My idea and Lavinia's idea has a same thing in common.
2. Why is "Mother Wolf" (258) an appropriate nickname for Lavinia?
I think "mother wolf" is the right nickname for Lavinia because she said "...if a wolf comes here I will call him brother" I think her saying that she is going to call the wolf brother means that she's a family with wolfs. I think she is trying to think of wolf as a family member of her than a animal that is harmful. Also she disagrees with the idea of building a fence around place but she says that it's not a good idea to make a fence around the place.
Answer to #6:
"When the sun begins to rise and dazzle all the sky, I find the dark place in the hollow oak... I can hear a mouse breathe among the fallen oak leaves... I fly among the trees on soft wings that make no sound... My cry is soft and quavering: i, i, I cry: Go on, go."
This indicates to me that Lavinia has turned into an owl of Albunea. She indicates that she shall not die because her poet did not give her enough words to declare it so. Therefore, she turns into an owl, living forever in the oracular forests of Albunea.
There is though, it seems, an indication that she still lives, or that she is in the Elysium Fields, as shown in this quotation:
"Only sometimes my soul wakes as a woman again, and then when I listen I can hear silence, and in the silence his voice."
The unidentified "he" I believe to be Aeneas. This would indicate that she is shifting between life and the afterlife. She could also be in fever, deliriously dreaming about being an owl, and heading towards the Fields, and seeing/hearing Aeneas. It is also possible that she is in fact alive, but dreams or feels as though she has gone on, living as an owl.
Overall, it is very difficult to tell from Lavinia's tone where she is, what she is and what has happened. Hypothetically, this book is a real diary of a real literary character who can convey real feelings, messages and stories to us. How could she write if she were dead or an owl? For me, this conclusion is somewhat strange and elusive. Much of it is shrouded in mysterious riddles.
Does anybody have a better answer? That whole section was very intriguing and interesting for me in its abstractness.
7. Why do you suppose the author has Lavinia change into some kind of animal?
On page 272 it says, "My cry is soft and quavering: i, i, I cryL Go on, go."
I think that the author has her turn into some kind fo animal because she didn't feel A) She didn't have the rites to kill a character of someone else's and B) "One must be changed, to be immortal." I think that the author recognized how she had changed the character of Lavinia and made her round instead of flat, and given her a soul and feelings, unlike in the Aenead.
After the whole book was done, it didn't feel right for Mavinia to die. She was such an eternal character, following fate and allowing it to guide her, rather than ripping holes in the future. There didn't seem to be a way that she could die that fate would intend. She couldn't get sick because that would be a cop-out for such an important character, even if she was left out for almost all of the Aenead. She couldn't be killed because that would be unfair to the character. Fate wouldn't let that happen to her, have her life stollen. She couldn't even die of old age because she didn't get any older as a character. She stayed about the same, but her feelings went full-circle.
Lavinia was too eternal, too ever-the-same but ever-changing for anything so complete to over-take her. On the back of the book it says, "I won't die. Of that I am all but certain. My life is too contingent to lead to anything so absolute as death..." She was guided, created by fate to follow fate. How does fate kill? Can it actually kill on its own? Lavinia is eternal.
Also, the sound of a bird or other night animal, "i, i" does sound like what means "go on, go," so the author was using that to her ability.
#1
Compare Ascanius' idea of piety (257) to Lavinia's near the bottom of p. 22. Discuss.
"Piety to him meant a man's obedience to the will of higher powers,a safe righteousness."
"she's pious. By that word I meant responsible,faithful to duty, open to awe."
I believe like Heather that Lavinia's idea of piety is better. I find Lavinia's idea of piety is innocent and pure while still being hard working. I found Ascanius' idea of piety more harsh and actualy less dificult to be. To me piety should also be something about the soul. If piety can be achieved by the action of being obediant it would not have anything to do with the soul at all. An action you can force upon yourself but characteristics like being responsable faithful and open to awe are things that cannot be forced upon you but instead must be accepted by you.
Ka Yeon Nam
Question 2
"wolves, queen," old Girnus said- "bears-!" And I said, "There are no bears in Albunea, and if a wolf comes here I will call him brother." They took that saying back to Laviniun, and some people called me Mother Wolf, after that.
The volunteers who came to help Lavinia with her house in the forest, they wanted her to be safe from wolf or bear attacks, but there was no bear living in that forest, and Lavinia told others that she will not need a protection and that she will call the wolves that comes "brothers." I think she does not want to be worrying about the wild life because she thinks that the forest and the wild life is her life too and that she wants to be like a family (like what Ji Yoon said.).
2. Why is "Mother Wolf" (258) an appropriate nickname for Lavinia?
When the person came to Lavinia's house to put the fence around her house, Lavinia strongly disagreed with it. The reason why Lavinia disagreed about putting the fence was that she feels like she is also part of the wolf family. Also she is very protective over her child acting very like a mother. So I think "Mother Wolf" is an appropriate nickname for Lavinia.
6. There is some evidence that Lavinia turns into a non-human animal. What kind of animal would you guess?
I would have to agree with Nick that the animal Lavinia becomes at the end is indeed one of the owls she encounters in the forest with her poet. Though the author never actually uses the word owl specifically, but alludes to it multiple times with inspecific, but very vivid imagery that puts a specific picture in the reader's head. Overall, the author definitely puts the picture of a powerful, silent bird of prey in our minds' eye.
1. Compare Ascanius' idea of piety (257) to Lavinia's near the bottom of p. 22. Discuss.
"By that word I meant responsible, faithful to duty, open to awe." Page 22
"Piety to him meant a man's obedience to the will of higher powers, a safe righteousness." Page 257
Piety to Lavinia is the responsibility and independence of a person's purpose. She believes that if you possess piety you are open to the world and open to possibilities yet you still have a strong sense of stability, and honesty. This would mean always obeying and setting a self goal for oneself, staying on track with no help from others but only oneself. This would let someone be able to be open to possibilities of the world with laws and imagination. If you are not going "word by word" of a "rule book," then you are open to awe and still being faithful to your duty and following and doing what needs to be done. She thinks of people as independent and create own self goals versus a group of people.
Piety to Ascanius is following the laws of higher power passed on to oneself. He believes if you follow this, you are safe from guilt and easily grants you the state of being just because of your past actions. He believes in a sort of group definition of piety, not focusing on the central position and doings of one self but following other people's rules and regulations.
Lavinia focuses more on a self created goal while Ascanius focuses on following laws created by a higher class, making your goal less valuable. He also believes this task can be easily reached and keeps you just, while Lavinia sort of takes the idea of piety as something that is not accomplished immeadiatley, but something that needs to be worked towards, and that can never be perfect but can be close to the ideal of perfection.
I agree with Lavinia's idea of Piety in the sense of creating own self goals and focusing only on that and always working for perfection and responsibility versus following laws created by a higher power.
2. Why is "Mother Wolf" (258) an appropriate nickname for Lavinia?
In the beginning of the book, Lavinia encounters a She-Wolf in a cave that she explores. It was said that the Wolf was called a loving mother and a fierce queen. I think that Lavinia eventually turns into this She-Wolf., thus the name "Mother Wolf" is a perfect nickname for her. She certainly turns into a loving mother, seeing as Silvius adores her and loves her dearly. She sees herself as a wolf in some ways because she is so protective of Silvius and would do anything for him. She also has a wolf type quality when she stays by her sons side at all times, until he fully grows up and is ready to go out on his own. Along with that she kept the role of queen with justness and fierceness which is not easy to do. Mother wolves generally take their spot as the highest position and assert themselves as the head of the family, and thats what Lavinia did. Thus I think that "Mother Wolf" is a very appropiate name for Lavinia.
Sung Kun Kim
3. What are the implications of Ascanius not having any children?
- After years of their marriage, Ascanius and his wife can't get a child. When Ascanius calls in wise women and soothsayers to find out why,
"The wise women said that Salica was in perfect health and there was no reason she should not conceive.The soothsayers all foretold that she would die barren. They gave no cause or cure, and their prophecies were cloaked in images and cloudy language, for if the fault was in Ascanius they did not wish to say so."
This fault that belonged to Ascanius comes out in pg. 265, when Atys comes back dead. It says "Ascanius' sexual discomfort with women perhaps driving him gradually back to seek the tender simplicities of his first love: and Atys, poor loyal soul, was there to offer them."
Ascanius didn't love Salica truly but had discomfort toward women. Because of this his true lover was Atys and this made them impossible to have a child.
Yeena Sung
5. What evidence is there that Silvius is or will become an effective ruler?
There is a lot of implications that Silvius is an effective ruler. Although I believe it might not be related, but I think the person that the author describes as a good person or an influential person, is someone that Lavinia favors. Also, it doesn’t talk about the bad sides of Silvius but only the good side when in contrast, there is a lot of bad things about Ascanius. This shows that Silvius is a heroic and an effective person. Also, the fact that Ascanius didn’t have children infers that he couldn’t inherit his wealth meaning his power was strong for only a brief time. However, Silvius had a lot if children showing he was the cause of the power for the children who will become successful.
Question #2
Why is "Mother Wolf" (258) an appropriate nickname for Lavinia?
Mother wolf is an appropriate name for Lavinia because of her motherly characteristics. One of them is the fact that she doesn't want to build the fence because she's one with the wolves. She's also showing that she can take care of her people. Throughout the book she has other motherly traits, like when she runs away from Ascainus for her son, this is not only motherly but corageous, "Mother wolf" suites her.
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