What Silvius may have looked like. This painting was done by a Roman living in Egypt roughly at the time of Vergil' writing the Aeneid.Some of these questions will pertain to reading assignments from the last couple of nights.
1. Why do you think the fact that Aeneas killed turnus the way he did bothered Aeneas so much? (187-190)
2. Are there signs
that the gods wanted Aeneas' new city to do well? Like what?
3. How does the battle against Camers of Ardea and his men help the new city of Lavinium? (196-198)
4. Give an example of the fact that Ascanius is not a very good character. If someone has written already about your example, find another example.
5. Aeneas gives Ascanius a lesson about being a ruler (218)--put into your own words what Aeneas wants Ascanius to understand.
6. Note that the man who kills Aeneas was able to because Aeneas, when he had his sword at his throat, grants the man his wish to live (223). Comment.
1. Why do you think the fact that Aeneas killed turnus the way he did bothered Aeneas so much? (187-190)
2. Are there signs
that the gods wanted Aeneas' new city to do well? Like what?
3. How does the battle against Camers of Ardea and his men help the new city of Lavinium? (196-198)
4. Give an example of the fact that Ascanius is not a very good character. If someone has written already about your example, find another example.
5. Aeneas gives Ascanius a lesson about being a ruler (218)--put into your own words what Aeneas wants Ascanius to understand.
6. Note that the man who kills Aeneas was able to because Aeneas, when he had his sword at his throat, grants the man his wish to live (223). Comment.
13 comments:
1. Why do you think the fact that Aeneas killed turnus the way he did bothered Aeneas so much?
Aeneas seems to be a very honorable warrior and soldier who wants nothing but a fair fight and is has a very strong sense of justice in everything he does, even when it comes to war. However, this sense of overwhelming justice that he chooses to truly involve with his life can sometimes be a vice on his conscience, and bothers him after he does something that violates this moral code he enforces so strictly. When Aeneas decided to fight Turnus one-on-one, he expected and wanted a fair fight: when Turnus ran like a coward from the duel, Aeneas acted in a blind rage and struck him down. This bothered Aeneas so because he feels as though he killed a man who had already surrendered to him as it was. This will always affect his conscience, but I felt like this is why Aeneas feels so bad about the fight, considering it "murder".
Answer to #6:
"He turned and threw it. It hit Aeneas in the back and went through his chest... He was not dead at once, but he was dead when they carried him into Lavinium..."
In my opinion, this is a really ratty and backstabbing act. Even though Aeneas was his foe, the fact that Aeneas let him go was very forgiving. But then the boy turned around and attacked him, which I believe treacherous and false. The youth pleaded with Aeneas to spare his life, and in return, he kills him. This is so unjust, I feel quite incredulous.
Although it is not quite ironic, it is strange how these instances arise. This I suppose is human nature, to do what is best for yourself, and pay attention to other minimally. One would think that in such an extreme case, there would be more forgiveness, humility or just plain humane behavior.
4. Give an example of the fact that Ascanius is not a very good character.
Ascanius just tries to take land that belongs to the Rutulians. He doesn't ask first, he doesn't wager, he doesn't make it fair. He just tries to take what he wants, and he fights back blindly when the Rutulians get a little angry with him. An example of this is on page 214 where it says, "Ascanius had indeed caused most of the trouble, by claiming as Latin ground certain winter pastures used by the Rutulians, and putting settlers in a stream valley the Rutulians considered their summer pasture, and sending his soldiers to harass and Rutulians who crossed the border."
A good leader or king wouldn't do that. He'd talk to the Rutulian king first, trying the peaceful way to use the land first. A good king wages war only when nesseccary, and knowing when it really is nesseccary. Ascanius believes war si always nesseccary because it's the only way a man can prove himself. He thinks victory in battle is the only way to prove the true manliness of a man.
4. Give an example of the fact that Ascanius is not a very good character. If someone has written already about your example, find another example.
Ascanius is not a good character because when Lavinia gives a welcoming party to him, he showed neither shame or defiance. If I had an welcoming feast, than I would feel happy and thankful but I think Ascanius's reaction to the welcoming feast was negative. Also he says that man's virtue is skill in fighting and the courage to fight. I think that Ascanius is somewhat violent and selfish because he doesn't really think about peace but he thinks about having a war and fighting with people.
Sang Eun Oh
5. Aeneas gives Ascanius a lesson about being a ruler (218)--put into your own words what Aeneas wants Ascanius to understand.
"If you are to rule Latium after me, and pass it to your brother Silvius, I want to know that you'll learn how to govern, not merely make war, that you'll learn to ask the powers of earth and sky for guidance for yourself and your people, that you'll learn to seek your manhood on a greater field than the battlefield. Tell me that you will learn those things, Ascanius."
Aeneas wants his son, Ascanius to learn the fact that the manhood is not about how well a man fights in a battlefield. The manhood should not be associated with battlefield but with greater field. If a leader tries to make wars, then that is a terrible leader. A good leader is not judged by how well they fight in the battlefield, but how well he guides his people. Aeneas is worried about Ascanius because his son is thinking about the manhood as a good fighter and Aeneas doesn't want his son to be that way. When Aeneas dies, Ascanius has to take over the reign before Silvius. Therefore Aeneas is wanting Ascanius to understand the truth of a good leader whom others prove his virtue.
5. Aeneas gives Ascanius a lesson about being a ruler (218)--put into your own words what Aeneas wants Ascanius to understand.
"If you are to rule Latium after me, and pass it to your brother Silvius, I want to know that you'll learn how to govern, not merely make war, that you'll learn to ask the powers of earth and sky for guidance for yourself and your people, that you'll learn to seek your manhood on a greater field than the battlefield. Tell me that you will learn those things, Ascanius."
In this speech, given by Aeneas, to his son Ascanius, he eplains his wantings for his future in ruling. He explains what he is to learn in the future while he would rule as king. First, he states that Ascanius will rule after him,and that he shall pass it on to his younger brother. Then he states he will learn many aspects of life and not all through war. He will learn how to rule himself and his empire along with the help of the gods, and to learn how to communicate with them. He also states Ascanius will learn how to come to power and his manhood, meaning knowing strength, thruth, and so on, through himself and not through war. Overall, he is stating the fact that in his future he will learn the way of life through himself and not through war. Also, that Aeneas himself will not be there to guide him along the way, but he shall have to learn and teach himself the ways of life. At the end of the speech, he asks for a promise between him and his son, and what he is to learn.
1. Why do you think the fact that Aeneas killed turnus the way he did bothered Aeneas so much?
When Aeneus first accepted the idea of the one on one fight between himself and Turnus he thought that he would be fighting as himself. As said earlier on in the book even though his blind rage is pretty much the reason why he is known as a great warrior he resents the blind rage because he thinks it puts him at an unfair advantage. Also I think when Turnus, a man who was so stubborn andbold, literaly said i give up do what you want with it he just became the victem and it didn't seem as virtuous.
Heather Rhee
Q3
A
"The attackers never got into the city.."
"We're in a good pusition to practice restraint"
"Easy victory"
The battle against Camers of Ardea turned out to be a benefit for the people in Lavinium. Even though Lavinia had a awful fearful morning because of the battle, the battle ended in a successful way.
It was an easy victory for Lavinium because the attackers didn't even had a chance to come in to the city at all.
I think this battle helped the new city of Lavinium by encoraging the men in the city. All of them were elating after the war. Aeneas was one of them too.
6. Note that the man who kills Aeneas was able to because Aeneas, when he had his sword at his throat, grants the man his wish to live (223). Comment.
I find this really unfair. Aeneas has such anger problems when it comes to fighting, and the one time he controls it, he gets killed. The man asks for his life, but takes one in return. It's just so sad and a little ironic. Aeneas feels very strongly about killing people and he doesn't want to do it just to prove his manliness or that he's not a coward. The man who asked for his life and took Aeneas's was a great coward and played unfairly. He should've been a man and took his fate, but he didn't and killed a great person in the process.
Sung Kun Kim
1. Why do you think the fact that Aeneas killed turnus the way he did bothered Aeneas so much? (187-190)
- He saw it as a murder. He saw himself as a murderer. He had withheld his sword giving Turnus time to surrender to him fully and courageously, and yet after that, dismissing the obligation to spare the helpless and pardon the conquered, in a fury of vengeance he had killed him. He had done nefas, unspeakable wrong."
Aeneas saw his action of killing Turnus as murder. He thought he killed Turnus in fury of vengeance after he made Turnus surrender to him. This made Aeneas worry and think so hard if he was wrong to do it.
"Turnus was young, ambitious, impatient," he said. " But what was evil in him?"
He also thought that Turnus didn't deserve death from him. He thought that Turnus was just a young man who made a foolish mistake which anyone can make.
This bothered Aeneas, but gets persuaded by Lavinia who thinks that Turnus was wrong and right to be killed.
Yeena Sung
6. Note that the man who kills Aeneas was able to because Aeneas, when he had his sword at his throat, grants the man his wish to live (223). Comment.
Aeneas was killed by an old man because he gave the old man a chance and the old man through a spear through his chest. I believe this happened because Aeneas still felt bad about killing Turnus because he didn’t grant him a chance and killed him in revenge. Even though, Aeneas was killed, I believe that Aeneas would have felt better about himself that he had mercy for a person and that he didn’t kill someone.
1. Why do you think the fact that Aeneas killed turnus the way he did bothered Aeneas so much? (187-190)
The way Aeneas always been is to be fair with everything. He is a warrior thats just and very strong about that subject. But sometimes things happening not the way he wanted to bothers him much so. For an example, he wanted to fight Turnus one on one. But the way he wished, did not happen at all. Turnus was afraid, so he ran away. When Aeneas realized, he struck Turnus down which murdered him.
Ka Yeon Nam & Demi
1. Why do you think the fact that Aeneas killed turnus the way he did bothered Aeneas so much?
Eventhough Aeneas decided to fight Turnus one-on-one, it bothered him a lot.
"He saw it as murder. He saw himself as a murderer...In a fury of vengeance he had killed him. He had done nefas, unspeakable wrong."pg187
This is how he felt about killing Turnus and this tells that he did not have a clear understanding or a mind of what he was doing. However, he did it because I think he wanted to be fair and also to not hurt his people.
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