As Troy is being destroyed by Greek warriors, Aeneas takes his father on his back to carry him out of the sity. His wife, Creusa, is to his left, our right.At this point, the plot of Lavinia begins in earnest. Turnus has come to court Lavinia. Please note the word pious, and the definition Lavinia herself gives for it, and who taught her this definition.
Here is your prompt for this weblog entry:
After doing this reading, how do you feel about Turnus? Positively, negatively, both, a mix? Why?
50 comments:
I had a longer blog but it deleeted it because internet left me for a second...
Getting thogether my thoughts...
Turmus took over the Eutruscan tyrant. He ha deep blue eyes, is muscular, and wants Lavinia's hand. He gets to know her parents at dinner and makes Lavinia uncomfortable but happy by staring at her as they eat. He wishes her good dreams when her parents send her to bed by standing up with his glass and saying, "Fairest of all the daughters of Father Tiber, may you have sweet dreams!" She is paralyzed and slips out quickly. She is really excited.
My thoughts are together.
I like Turmus. I think he seems nice. He is respectful and only talks to her once or twice before asking for her hand. He gets to know Lavinia's mother and father. He is good looking, wealthy, a great king and he would be a great husband. I am angry that Lavinia's father says no.
The author paints a picture of Turnus' character through Lavinia's thoughts about him, and his actions. The reader sees Turnus through a tinted lense because of this, but his "nice-ness" is magnified through this. Lavinia describe Turnus looking at her over dinner with a "slight smile" (p. 19) and also adds that it was not a "stare" (p. 19). Both of these descriptions suggest that he is softer than he is first described as, "muscular" and "proud" (p. 18). Although Lavinia does seem to like him, "blushing" (p. 19), she also notes a feeling of "discomfort" (p. 19). I wonder if this discomfort shows that she has a 'crush' or shows that at some level, she doesn't like his flirtatious behavior. When Turnus asks for her hand a page or two later, she appears to be conflicted, and not know what she would've wanted if her father hadn't deemed her too young, answering when asked what she would think if he asked when she was older, plainly "I don't know" (p. 22).
No one else has checked in...
Oh wait. I needed to reload the page.
Butbutbut.... I beat Jake.
Oh; this is Rocco by the way....
About Jake's comment
I think Lavinia's blushing is showing that she likes his flirtacious behavoir and the reason she is confused is because this behavior may be new to her and she doesn't know how to react. It obviously gets her excited and I think she enjoys it. She must be happy that Turmus, the fabled king wants to marry her.
However it does say on page 22 that she doesn't know if she would want to marry him in a year.
...I wonder if she would.
Anyway... I'm off for the night....
Rocco
Checking in. . .
People should comment! I'm really in the mood to discuss!
I like that phrase you used Jake... Actually, I love that whole sentence. Which sentence? This one:
The reader sees Turnus through a tinted lense because of this, but his "nice-ness" is magnified through this.
People, bring up interesting topics for me.
I agree with Rocco that Turnus seams like a nice, respectful man of eligible status for Lavinia. I'm not, however, angry that her father said no to his proposal of marriage. He didn't say never, he just said not right now. Lavinia describes herself as a girl, not a child but not a woman. (Short, skinny, sunburnt, etc.) I'm not sure if we know her exact age but she is still attached to her father and he to her. I think it's sweet that he doesn't want to part with her. After all, if Turnus really likes Lavinia as much as he seams to, he'll be alright waiting a year or two...
It's Rosamund.
Oh and just putting my thoughts into this "heated" zesty blog argument about weather or not Lavinia likes Turnus:
She is clearly surprised and taken aback at his forwardness with her. She doesn't look upset, but you can tell at the beginning (that first dinner) she's not really comfortable, as she feels embarrassed. I think she really just wants what her father wants. She talks about how she's never really wanted to marry a particular person, and how she thinks that she'll just "marry when the person comes along, and then think about all that stuff". (That's not a real quote, it's just summarized.)
Lavinia also says she "doesn't know" what she thinks about the matter and weather she thinks her father should have let Turnus be a suitor right away. Some might say that she's just uncomfortable talking about this in front of her parents, but I think that her gesture of affection towards her father (she puts her hand on his, which is laid on her shoulder,) is a sign that she respects him, and therefor his decision.
I have mixed feelings about this Turmus guy. I mean he's obviously beautiful and that is definetley a plus cause...yeah...but also he is respectful of her father. The thing is tha he is very imtimitating especially to Lavinia becuase she is just a girl and a young man is hitting on her or whatever and I am sure that it would be very frightneing (but not that bad). I also think that she is very excited as well the whole time she was blushing but it was because she was so delighted from the attention. It mentions that she can not stop thinking about him so that also shows that she at least somewhat likes this, though she does not want to leave her home and she has never though about marriage seriously.
Pshhhht Alex P. your funny (first sentence, "cause.... yeah")
I think that Rosamund does have a point about the debate whether or not Lavinia likes Turmus. If he really likes her (he doesn't know her; he can't love her) then he will come back every year until her father decides that she is old enough.
I am still wondering however if Lavinia will say yes to his proposal in years to come. Much to the author's liking I want to know more. So... I'm sure she will tell us more later. Maybe he isn't so good. Maybe he will change.
I'm interested...
I just want to start out by saying that I was blown away by Jake's blog, he hit it right on target and I completely agree. I also wanted to say that Rocco's commentS, plural, are also very indepth. I think that the author portrays Turnus in a way that only seems to allow us to see him in a positive light. Since we are hearing all of this from Lavinia's point of view--who we determind in the previous blog, is a very positive and accepting person--it may be slightly...biased or "contaminated." I say this because she seems to point out the good in everyone. I would also say that she is confused about how she feels about him because she--as Jake pointed out--seems to suggest that she has a weird feeling towards him and also she is unsure if she would accept a porposal.
I thought he was ok i totally agree with rocco, he does a lot of nice thing like by being respectful, and by the way Lavinia desribes him she must really like him.
oh my god rocco's so right about his comment after Rosomunds I agree and it's somthing that actually very interesting to ponder will he like her still? will she , or will her dad even say yes?
Hey! That is a good question, Austin. I dont think we can really know until we continue reading. But one thing that I leaened as a writer is that authors GIVE HINTS! They will probably be very subtle and a lot of times the author doesnt even mean to. So pay very close attention and you may get an answer sooner than expected.
I feel positive about Turnus. I agree with Alex Potts were he must be good looking. I also agree with the fact that she must like all the attention and everything like that because of her blushing. I also feel the same as Rosamund, that Turnus seems nice and respectful and the fact that he is eligible for Lavinia makes me mad because her father doesn't accept the proposal. I love what she said "Lavinia describes herself as a girl, not a child but not a woman." I disagree with the fact that Turnus and Lavinia should have to wait to get married. I understand that Lavinia is to young but if they are in love they should be allowed to get married. You guys make such great points that makes a lot of sense and you make me think!
ohhhhhhhhh! this is alison! btw!
I think its interesting how cliche the interactions were between Turnus and Lavinia. Now with that aside, I think (not that this hasn't been said quite a few times, quite obviously) the way Turnus is portrayed is biased to the point where telling whether or not he is or isn't a good person is skewed due to Lavinia's awkward affection. As cynical as this must seem it is provoked by the way Lavinia perceives Turnus looking almost too long as something of a good thing rather than just what it is, or something worse. Now, I am not doubting Turnus's "niceness" rather how accurately we can judge him.
I think that the way that Evan stated Turnus personality and the specualation is very good...I agree with it. On another point the author wants you to believe what they want you to believe. Now this is protryaed from characters and such but all in all it is the author influancing what is going on. I commented on this yesterday because in my oppinion it is very evident in this book.....that your oppinion is influanced with what the author wants you to know.
Rocco...................................your crazy!!!!
AND
IS it Turnus or Turmus?? CHECK YOU SPELLINGS PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
okay.....i completely agree wit everyone's comments about Turnus...he is a respectbale (incredibly attrative) man...i don't see why they can't get married besides their age!!!!!!
I really can't say anything else because everyone sadi it all!!!!!!
Nice to hear from you all.
Turner: I'm not crazy.
I like to see how everyone is reacting to Turmus. I like him too.
Thanks,
Rocco
I like how you guys brought up Lavinia liking attention. I agree. I think attention might be a new thing for her beause her dad is king and her mother and her have a poor relationship.
This is Hunter:)
I completely agree with everyone. Turnus is a respectable, attractive young man. And the fact that Lavinia blushes when he stares at her definitely shows that she has feelings for him, even if she "doesn't know it." I REALLY hope they get to marry each other!!!!
I agree with all the people that said positively about Turnus (I think this is mostly everyone). Turnus asks Lavinia to marry him and also he gives her glances which makes Lavinia blush because she is in love with her. I think the same way as Rosamund as how Rocco said that he thinks that it is a bad thing that Lavinia's father said that she cannot marry him this year and will have to wait. He is not saying that she cannot marry him at all but is just saying that she is still too young to marry him. Lavinia already knows that because as Rosamund said, she talks about how she is a "girl and not a woman." She lists some features of herself that make her a girl. I also think Turnus is a good person because it seems like he cares about all the people that he is with. When he is talking, he never gets mad and is always talking to the whole group.
There is not much we actually truly know about Turnus. We know that he is a king. We know that he is strong, a fighter, and wealthy. We know that he has lots of beautiful land in his possesion. But for me, that's not really who Turnus is. At this point in time we don't really know anything about his personality. We don't know if he's intelligent, funny, kind, charitable...etc. We know absolutely nothing about his character. To me, to have an opinion of someone I need to know about their personality. Because to me, that's more important than their title...or rather what they do, or own. I'm going to make a comparison here. Say I know that someone is a dancer at Walnut Hill. I know what they are DOING with their life...but I know absolutely nothing about their character. Yes, there are stereotypes about every kind of person, but just because you THINK you know who someone is...doesn't mean you really do. I don't know if I'm making any sense....What I am really trying to say is- All that We, and Lavinia know about Turnus is that he's a wealthy king of a distant land, who people think is a just man. But...we don't know who he TRULY is. Sure...I like the idea of Turnus...him and Lavinia would make a cute couple. But I am not going to make a decision about him until I learn who he really is.
Whatever Rocco!!!!!!!
Agreeing with evryone again!!!!!!
checking in
YYYYYYYEEEEEESSSSSSSSS RACHAEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
totally agree...he is a bit schetchy!!!!! You are brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
checking in
I would just like to comment because I actually like the discussion today because even though the thoughts were really simular, they were different at teh same time and it was really fun reading everyone's comment.
And by the way Turner, you have many spelling errors too :D
checking in...
Turner I am going to disagree with you for a moment. You said "i don't see why they can't get married besides their age!!!!!!" I know that if I were Lavinia I wouldn't want to marry a man I hardly even know...when I've barely even grown up, or found out who I am. That would be a marriage destined for disaster. That would be like me meeting a really cute guy, who has a good job and a nice house, that for some insane reason wanted to marry me tomorrow. BAD IDEA. I don't even know this guy!!! See the father's wisdom now? Lavinia still needs to grow up, and she shouldn't marry someone until she is sure that she knows who he is, and that she loves him. I completely agree with the father's decision to wait until the girl has grown up before they think of marriage.
Rachael: I LOVE YOUR MIND.
I like how you question how Turmus may actually be different than what we think he is. Maybe...
How interesting!
thank you rocco for that self-esteem booster! :) I'd also like to question why Turnus didn't talk to Lavinia...he only looked at her. Was Lavina's beauty more important to him than her personality and intelligence? Or was it just not proper manners for the two of them to speak with each other....hmmmmm.
I think that Turnus is a nice young man who would support Lavinia. He is respectful and handsome and wealthy. I was upset when Lavinias father said no. He would have done a fine job as her husband.
We come to view Turnus rather objectively at first... Page 18, 6th paragraph. He is obviously a mighty man, an attractive man. All the girls swoon at his very presence (page 20, fourth full paragraph). But his attractiveness necessarily scares poor Lavinia. She blushes as no man has ever made her before. Her intense emotion is mirrored in the fact that her status as virgin is at stake. Turnus is presented subjectively, through Lavinia. He is a threat! But, in an objective sense, Turnus is a nice man. He indulges in polite conversation with Lavinia's mother, listens to her father and all the while flashes polite, suggestive smiles towards Lavinia. I think, as a self proclaimed "girl, not yet woman", Lavinia knows little about interaction and courting, and so immediately considers Turnus overwhelming. She feels, by page 25, that she is not even good enough for him yet. Turnus is presented contrastingly; we can tell he is a great guy, but also presents a tricky puzzle for Lavinia. What will she do? How will this interesting "first impression" effect their relationship's outcome? Questions to contemplate...
You are very welcome for that self esteem booster Rachael... It was nice to read your comment...
Anyway... Onto Matt....
This is a solid paragraph:
We come to view Turnus rather objectively at first... Page 18, 6th paragraph. He is obviously a mighty man, an attractive man. All the girls swoon at his very presence (page 20, fourth full paragraph). But his attractiveness necessarily scares poor Lavinia. She blushes as no man has ever made her before. Her intense emotion is mirrored in the fact that her status as virgin is at stake. Turnus is presented subjectively, through Lavinia. He is a threat! But, in an objective sense, Turnus is a nice man. He indulges in polite conversation with Lavinia's mother, listens to her father and all the while flashes polite, suggestive smiles towards Lavinia. I think, as a self proclaimed "girl, not yet woman", Lavinia knows little about interaction and courting, and so immediately considers Turnus overwhelming. She feels, by page 25, that she is not even good enough for him yet. Turnus is presented contrastingly; we can tell he is a great guy, but also presents a tricky puzzle for Lavinia. What will she do? How will this interesting "first impression" effect their relationship's outcome? Questions to contemplate...
Matt I love your desciption and all of your references to teh text. Nice job. You even read to 26!
Hooray!!
it seems like turnus is nice. he does not stare, which shows he does not want to scare lavinia. he also is a very wealthy and honorable man. i kind of forgot that the book is about how lavinia causes a war because of how beautiful she is, she seems so normal.
i also think that turnus would not act mean to her if he wanted to marry her so i dont think we are getting the whole picture.
I'm wondering... Alex Manning... Do you like Turmus or dislike him? Just wondering.
Anyway...
Alison, I love that little detail you provided. Lavinia describes herself as a girl, not yet a woman and not yet a child. It's subtle but very much there and important!
And Turner... Watch your own spelling.
Have a great night everyone,
Rocco
Everyone is so caried away by Turmus's looks! For the most part i feel like we like him cause he is flirtacious and is good looking... funny.
Rooccoo!
I'm going to spell teh just like YOU from now on!
Anyway... We seem to agree Turnus is a chill dude, and that Rachael's self-esteem has been boosted, but do we think Turnus will be mean at some point? He seems a sly character to me... Why does he want to get married to Lavinia so soon?
On the note of spelling,
Turner wrote:
IS it Turnus or Turmus?? CHECK YOU SPELLINGS PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
okay.....i completely agree wit everyone's comments about Turnus...he is a respectbale (incredibly attrative) man...i don't see why they can't get married besides their age!!!!!!
I really can't say anything else because everyone sadi it all!!!!!!
A list of YOUR spelling errors:
You = I assume you meant: your
Wit = I assume you meant: with
Sadi = I assume you meant: said
Sorry, I just thought that was hilarious!!!
Thanks Turner!
Matthew
This has been a fun blog night.
One to be remembered...
[This is the fourtieth comment]
rocco talks 2 much checking in
This is Sofia.
Personally, through my eyes, I don't really have a problem with Turmus. Lavinia said, "...he looked at me. He didn't stare, but he looked again and again, with a slight smile. I became embarrassed as I had never been. His intense blue eyes began to frighten me. Every time I dared glance up, he was looking at me." Clearly, Turnus makes Lavinia uncomfortable, but I don't think he really does it deliberately. I think he's intrigued by her and wishes to court her-he doesn't stare at her to intimidate her.
checking in
sofia
checking in
and i agree with austin lol
checking in
checking in!!!!!!!!!!!!
im SSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO NERVOUS FOR TEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is Alison Remmers...
The comment that Turner mad and 8:08 i disagree with. The age is the reason they cant get married and the father should be allowed to say no if Lavinia is to young for him at this point in time. But if they wait a few years they could work it out.
I NEED TO COMMENT THE NEW BLOG!
Cheking in again for the new blog...
I was re-reading and I found this detail which could be telling of how Turmus really is.
My mother said... "It might be well not to make that young king wait too long."
"A year, or two, or three," Latinus said.
"Oh," and she winced with disgust and impatience. "Three years! The man is young Latinus! He has hot blood in his veins!
I think the lione about hot blood might be suggesting a trait about Turmus that most people didn't notice. Maybe this tells what her really is.
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