Please discuss an example of the holiness theme, or the taboo theme, from Palace Walk. In other words, what do these characters consider holy or taboo, and why might they do so? Bring up your own example if you can, or use one of the following:
p. 3 "She began with the first floor and continued with the upper story, reciting the Qu'ran suras she knew in order to ward off demons." (I take it that the sacred thing in this case is the sura--the excerpt, the verse--from the Qu'ran (Koran). If it's in the Qu'ran, it's holy, as far as Amina is concerned. Why might it be holy? In what way might it be holy? In what situations do phrases from the Qu'ran come up?)
OR
p. 11 "What he liked was to interpose a witty remark between one tune and the next to set everyone laughing, to take a sip from a full glass before starting the music again, and to observe its effect in the face of a friend or the eye of a chum. Then they would all join in expressing their admiration by saying, "Praise the Lord." Ahmad and his friends are partying, exchanging witticisms. The friends applaud Ahmad's witticisms by saying the prayer "Praise the Lord." What does their doing so say about what is holy in this culture, and people's attitude toward what is holy?
NOTE: I'm not coming up with an example of anything that is clearly taboo--as opposed to merely against the rules or inappropriate. Taboo is a pretty heavy word. If someone does have an example, I and the class would be very interested!
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I'm using example #1.
Amina believes that the Qu'ran is so sacred that just saying this verse from it will keep her from the evil spirits, or bad fortune. It may be that this particular verse was written for that, or maybe that this verse has significance to her as a person. At some point later in the Qu'ran, main themes and uses of different versus are mentioned. I think the first one is really stated to be able to do anything, but that I'm not sure about. Either way, Amina believes strongly in her religion and nothing could make her question it. Such devotion to her religion leads to devotion to this verse.
This is Rosamund.
PG 11 quote
I think this qoute represents how religion and God lays a part in EVERDAY life. It also shows, i believe, that Ahmad and hs freidns have a friendly reltaiponship with God, they laugh "with" God, they have a good time with each other anf God but thy obviously respect God very much. "Praise the Lord" is said many ties over the course of the book at all difernet times of day. This means the people are always remimding themselves and God they they are greatful to him and respect and worship him wih the outmost sinerity.
An Example of Taboo, i think, would be the instances where the father beats his children and wife...although we do see this is now adays, in America and other countries, as well as in numerous differnet ultures and religios, our "schema", Mr. Gregg might say, knows that a ftaher beating his wife and kids is NOT right........but that's just OUR scheme and brians thinking.........to other people, it could be COMPLETELY normal!!!!!!!
Just responding to Turner..
In Palace Walk, Ahmad beating his children is NOT taboo. In our culture it would be, but there are no rights for children in their culture and the male figure of the family has the right to do whatever he wants. Just thought I'd point that out.
This is Rosamund, checking in.
A holiness theme is how they are always prayint to the gods. Sometimes when the time is right to pray they will just drop all they are doing and pray to the gods. This is one of the first things they talk about it the book....they talk about how Amina will drop whatever she is doing to pray to the gods to make them happy. She does not wait until it is a conviniant time for her, she will pray to them whenever she is supposed to or whenever something bad has happened and she has to pray to make sure that everything is okay.
Holiness takes place with Amina
being overly religous. I agree with Rosamund with the fact that holiness takes form as the book and also as the mosque. Both of those things in the story are considered highly religous and holy to the family. Somthing taboo that comes in the story i would say eould be Yasin himself. The wa he flirst with his own sisters. Thats like the definition of taboo i would say.
It is very holy to say verses from the Qu'ran because it wards of bad spiritr and demons. When Amina is speaking words fom the Qu'ran she is speaking to her God and therefore she believes he will protect her. The verse and Qu'ran are holy because they have to do with the god and therefore it is so holy and powerful in that way that it wards off taboo.
I also found a taboo. In this book, Amina being seen by other people outside of the house is a taboo which Amina breaks. Also it is a taboo in their culture for a woman to go outside without their veil on, because it is against their religion. There is not specifically a statement or a quote from the book that supports this but you are able to imply it from all the information the book gives us about their religion and how Ahmad
(the father if I'm correct) lets Amina to go out of the house only when they are visiting their parents.
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The theme of taboo runs rampant through Palace Walk, fluidly shaping the lives of Amina and her family. A particularly interesting show of this theme is when Amina talks to Ahmad about Fahmy’s desire to marry Maryam, and Ahmad questions why he’d want to marry her if he’s never seen her. She remarks “Of course not, sir. My son doesn’t lift his eyes to look at a neighbor girl or anyone else. . . God shelter us. . . . When my son walks in the street he turns neither to the right nor to the left. When he’s at home he scarcely leaves his room unless he has to” (p. 129). In Palace Walk, it is disrespectful, and a sin in the eyes of god, to lay eyes on a girl that a man hasn’t married. This act is clearly taboo; a shame to Fahmy, and his family. Ahmad even goes as far as asking if he “is going to have to leave [his] store and job to squat at home in order to patrol it and rid it of corruption” (p. 129). This also gives the reader an important glance into the massively different culture in Egypt, and shows the reader what is taboo in culture.
I did the quote on page 3.
The Koran is a religious book that tells Amina how she should act. The Koran is the Muslim Bible and the Bible is to be considered holy. The things that it tells her to do like being kind is holy as well as making sure you know your god and in Amina's case it is Al-Husayn. Well in this quote it tells Amina “to ward off demons”, which is a holy thing to do because demons would be the opposite of holy and to “ward off” them would be to get rid of them.
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This is Hunter!:)
I'm using example #1, the one from page 3!
I think that the sura may be holy because it is from the sacred text of Muslim culture. If you are a Christian, you may say a prayer from the Bible if you are scared or something, so I think it is the same idea. Quotes from the Qu'ran mainly come up in situations that are bad or when someone says something offending to the religion she always says something like, "Praise the LORD" or "May God forgive with you." These quotes show faithful she is especially because she doesn't want to offend her religion.
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check at TABOO the MUSICAL!!!!!!!!! (just google it)
its not on know but it gots some serious controversy on b'way!!!!
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I was surprised about how many people wrote about taboo even though I wrote about it too.
Tabu shows up in Palace Walk through Fahmy and his crush on Maryam the neighbor. I like this theme of tabu because it seems so childish, and it is very interesting how it it so tabu for him to have seen the next door neighbor in this culture because extreme modesty is expected from women and even just him seeing her hands is extremely scandalous. As jake brought up earlier, Amina brings up to Ahmad that Fahmy wants to marry her. No one knows about Fahmy and Maryam's previous "relationship" and they are puzzled. I wonder what his punishment would be if they found out.... It would be terrible.
Anyway.... that is my Tabu example.
And this is rocco btw.
Its weird how few people talk about holiness...
Seems like one culture likes tabu...
Turner needs to stay on topic...
Holiness is in so many ways directly related to the extremely religious family detailed in Palace Walk, that it shapes the way the story necessarily progresses. Holiness is in effect, part of Egypt's (the family's) context. An example: Pg. 169, third full paragraph, "How often she had longed to visit this site, as though yearning for a dream that could never be achieved on this earth." She is simply visiting the tomb of a holy martyr she loves with all her heart! One might think this action extremely holy, but, once again, we must consider the schema of the one thinking the thought and how that schema shapes it. Amina has been warned SO many times, never ever to leave the house, especially unaccompanied, she must then fear leaving greatly, let alone unaccompanied. Women, according to the Koran were not aloud to appear in public un-scarfed (or without their faces and bodies covered), and, if the family's patriarch did so require it, not really allowed out ever. Now we can start to see, as Ahmad's family was a religious Koran-following, Father-fearering one, how Amina's sense of right and wrong might have swayed her from doing something even as holy as visiting the remains of a sacred martyr. Holiness is holiness, but can holiness be holiness if schema makes holiness unavailable? Every sunday, Christian folks in America head to church. Women usually dress in nice, low cut dresses, men in coats and button-downs, but there is in general a relaxed feeling about holy-nocity, which our good ol' American schema allows us. Holy-itude has no real price for us. Can religion be "real" for women like Amina, who are not let by their own schema, sense of right and wrong, to worship freely?
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This is Sofia...
One theme of holiness I found was the fact that Amina left the house (which was a huge risk for her to take) to go to the shrine of al-Husayn. For example,"Of course, since it was such a sacred pilgrimage, a visit to the shrine of al-Husayn appeared a powerful excuse for the radical leap her will was making..." This shows me that honoring important religious figures such as al-Husayn means a lot to the people of this culture and religion, especially since Amina took quite a risk by going to his shrine and ended up getting kicked out of Ahmad's household.
A theme that would be mostly considered taboo...but could also relate to holiness is how men and women before marriage aren't allowed to make any kind of contact...they aren't even allowed to LOOK at each other. This is shown in the book when Aisha waits by the window in the mornings so that the police man will look up with just the corner of his eyes at her and smile slightly...and this is considered a sin. Also when Fahmy teaches Kamal on the roof so that he can steal looks at Maryam, and when he suggests getting married to Maryam his dad gets really angry saying why does he want to marry her? has he seen her? This could be considered holiness because physical contact, and love between man and woman can be considered sacred...so that would explain their seperation.
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How are holiness and taboo connected I wonder? Isn't it taboo for Amina to be doing something holy in the example I pondered from page 169? Are there other instances of the relationship between holiness and taboo in Palace Walk?
I think that what is holy in their culture is heavily dependent praising God and what context it's used in. I think that definitely praising God for good fortune and such is a very typical factor, but to "praise the lord" in just a general party atmosphere is a strange attitude towards being Holy. So, to say the least I think that what is considered holy is not dependent on your attitude, rather your choice of words; it seems the sincerity is irrelevant.
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