Aeneas and Dido. That's Aeneas' son with Dido.The poet tells Lavinia about Aeneas' escape from Troy as the city is being destroyed by the Greeks. He carries his father on his back, and has his young son with him. His wife Creusa, gets lost, and in a vision she tells Aeneas to go on without her. Aeneas and his followers get in a boat and sail west. They end up at Carthage, on the northern coast of Africa, where he and the queen, a widow--Dido--fall in love. After a year or so Venus appears to Aeneas and tells him his fate is to move on. He does. Dido commits suicide.
Tonight's reading makes an extended reference to a poem written in the 1300's, Dante's Inferno. It features Virgil, and briefly features Aeneas and Dido. Don't worry about this reference for now. We'll come back to it.
One more thing: the poet's description of Aeneas' wanderings brings the story up into Lavinia's present time. Aeneas and his followers are about to land in Latium. (We've seen this scene--it was in the first two pages of the book. The book has been a flashback since then. Thank you Rosamund for pointing this out.)
Tonight's prompt: Virgil talks about visiting the underworld (the land of the dead); in his poem about Aeneas, he has Aeneas visit the underworld to see his dead father; in the Orpheus story, Orpheus visits the underworld. Why do you suppose there are stories about living people visiting the underworld? Do you know of any other stories where this happens?
23 comments:
Authors of this time seamed to like to write long, epic poems about characters who journey everywhere and go through the trials of life. They then make a moralistic point about it and let the reader learn some of the things the character learned, or see some of the things he saw. Death is one of the things we don't know much about, but have always existed. People have always died. An author sending a living character in the afterlife could be his way of showing his ideas on the afterlife, he could just be showing that the character went through life and saw death.
This is only an idea, and of course only the authors know why exactly they sent living characters into the afterlife.
Some other stories where this happens are:
Dante's Inferno, as mentioned in the assignment, and Mozart's Don Giovanni (the opera).
This is Rosamund if you can't tell.
I very much agree with frogfreak5555
I also think that it is almost a "style" of writting, when characters in any book go "down into the underworld". Like, frogfreak said, we don't know much (or anything, really) about "death", only what our minds think of it as.....so it is always up to interpretation in books, especially involving, mystery, sci-fi, journey/quests and adventures!!!
This is Hunter
I think that there are stories about people visiting the underworld because of visions. Perhaps they were really visiting it, but in my opinion, I think it's just visions taking them there. I believe this because I thought I read something once, no memory of what it was, that said you were only permitted to go to the underworld if you were ruler, or if you were sent there after death. Someone can correct me if I am completely wrong on that. But to actually answer the question, I suppose people write stories about living people visiting the underworld if the writer has a vision...or is just visualizing what it would be like.
The "underworld" and the concept of some kind of life after death is facinating to people, as the unknown is, and I think this is why it is often focused on in texts. There are a few main differences between these stories of the afterlife, in particular that there is this sense that "there is no rejoining [in the afterlife]" (p. 67 ) in Lavinia, while Orpheus appears to have the chance to rejoin with his wife after her death. It also appears that it is harder to get into the underworld as a mortal in Orpheus' story.
As for other books. . . in the Odyssey, Odysseus takes a trip to the underworld, and consults with a prophet (Tiresias), and meets his mother's spirit and others (like Agamemnon). I believe these trips to the underworld (in Greek poetry) are called nekyias ( or at least that's what I call them in casual conversation with friends and family ;-) ).
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Back then a lot of life was based on the after life. It was important to ancient culters. I think they wrote it for maybe a sense of hope because without thee stories they would have no answers to life and as mr. greg states religion starts because of un fufilled answers. So I would think they wrote stories of living people visiting the underworld to give people hope and in site into what death is in their futre.
I thinkt that authors try to explain that people can not contorl death and that no matter what they do when somoeone die they die. In the story of Orpheus he goes to get his wife but in the end he does not succeed. Mortals are not allowed in the underworld probably because they can not handle it and will end up dieing of grief and such because is sometimes is not a very happy place. Also maybe people of this time thought that storiies that they know of the underworld come from mortals who went there becuase how else would they know?
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I've enjoyed reading what you've all written. It's interesting to look at the connection between these visions and the view of the afterlife. Why is it only the main characters, and the people of high social class that have these visions? I wonder why only the rich would have these - if, as Mr. Durning suggests, sometimes these visions come from lack of food and sleep, wouldn't you think the poor would have many more visions? What is the line between crazy and prophet-like in this culture (or ours!?)?
Checking in. . .
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I think that there are stories about living people going to the underworld because in these myths, a tragedy always happens such as someone dying which is why the character goes to the underworld to see the people they lost. Also I think that the underworld is like the same thing as regret. If you go back and think about what you did before, and actually think about what you did, you will be abl to fix it. This might be a little off topic...
wat does numina mean??
pg 65 top
The authors both wrote about visiting the underworld because the characters lost someone and they went to go visit them. They do this because they miss them a lot and want to see their faces again. Death is a sad event that occurs and everyone goes through it. These two characters, Orpheus and Aeneas, lost a loved one and they could not let them go. They went into the underworld. I have never read any other books like this before in my life so these are interesting topics for me to read. I have seen movies about it but that is a completely different experience.
I agree with rosamund that to us...death is one of the greatest mysteries...and we tend to want to understand things, as a human species. We have minds that are always curious. We're not ok with things being mysteries! So I think that we all sort've make up our own solutions to the mysteries in life. And in ancient cultures...mythology was their way of solving the mysteries...So it makes sense that they would include things about the underworld in their stories! Also...I think that people would be much more likely to believe that their is something like the underworld...if they hear about humans who have SEEN it. It's like when people claim something crazy...to back it up they say "I saw it with my own two eyes!"...this is sort've their "proof" that such a thing exists. I don't know if you remember....but in the story of Hercules (at least the disney version) Hercules goes to the underworld to rescue the woman he loves. That might be something disney totally made up and it actually wasn't in the story...but it's still an example. Oh and the Book of the Dead talks about people going to the Egyptian version of the afterlife...sure it's not the underworld...but it's life after death...so it's related.
checking in...
I think the underworld is one of the grestest metaphors. It represents death and evil. It is almost as metaphorical as holding a gun to god's head (American Dad, Season 3; The most Adaquate Christmas Ever).
Not to get off topic, but I wanted to relate that methaphor to another one that i am very familiar with.
I think that when there weren't guns, and there wasn't as much stuff to make a metaphor with, and times and stuff was much more simple, so were stories. It is a popular story, visiting the underworld because it is something that is not so new, not so specific and most people can relate to it in some way, as once in a while (or more) people visit bad places physically, emotionally and more.
I'm not sure any tale sof this other than what I would normally mention (Dante's Inferno) as I am preivously familiar with this.
I'll be checking in... Sorry for doing so so late....
-Rocco
I agree with Alex Potts. They both talk about death and the afterlife. They each talk about how you can't controll death and like how it just happens and you have to have a good life. I also agree with Hunter. I think that they might be having just visions. That was something that they thought a lot about. We don't really think that much about it at our age because most likley we are not going to die soon but I am sure older people think about what death is going to be like and what happens after life.
BTW this is DANNY!!!!!!!!!
ohh i forgot to say this is alison!
Checking in.
i think it is focused on because it is a philisophical question we will never know. We cant bring someone back from the dead and ask him how dying was and whats on the other side. It could be a utopia. it could also be blackness.
This is Sofia...
I think that there are stories about people visiting the underworld to show the forces that work (such as evil) that explain why bad things happen, and explains things we don't understand. In Greek myths, much of the time these forces sort of take away personal responsibility. For example, if a god or goddess just doesn't like you.
Sorry if the above doesn't really make sense...I had some trouble putting my thoughts into writing.
I also agree with Jake about the underworld just being absolutely fascinating to people!
I think honestly that the reason there are stories of people visiting the underworld is just because most would agree that we don't know, and most likely never will, know what happens after we die. Death is something that is so common that the novelties of it are greatly emphasized, just because everyone has seen it in some shape or form. So, for an author to write about visiting a land where the dead supposedly go, would not only be interesting to most, but just perpetuate that common interest. Humans are beings that put meaning in things (as Mr. Gregg points out quite often) so for an author to write about one of the greatest novelties that meaning has ever been put into (besides the opposite, life) is not not only interesting for him to write, but for others to read.
Yes, nekyias are rather casual...
Anyways...
In Greek myths, as Orpheus and Eurydice, and the Iliad, the living characters to enter the underworld are not regular common-folk. Only hero's can enter the world off the dead without having died first. (This is not to say Orpheus is necessarily a Hero, but more an extremely talented person.) Death is inescapable, and for a mortal human to challenge that is very powerful. It is a testament to one's strength to be able to survive in Hates amongst the souls of the lifeless.
To be able to enter the underworld also represents the powerful reunion of live persons with their dead ancestors, something which death is not supposed to allow.
Other myths (which both happen to be Greek)...
In Herakles' myth, one of his twelve labors is to enter the underworld and tame its guardian dog, Cerberus. Of course, he does this, and while he's at it, cuts Hades' arm with his arrow. This represents a VERY powerful triumph over the guardian of death, as well as a stab at its king.
Also, in the Odyssey, Odysseus goes to the underworld to visit his mother, who died sadly while he was away at see. While there, he is reunited with some other companions, as well as the powerful king Agamemnon.
Anyways...
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