1. Please start by trying to establish what happens in hese lines, plot-wise. Someone try to say, and then others constructively and kindly suggest changes as necessary. Once that's done, please respond to one of the following prompts (unless you've already blogged).
2. Put into your own words the old woman's argument why someone's not well-born is not a good reason not to marry someone.
3. Put into your own words the old woman's argument why someone's being poor is not a good reason not to marry someone.
4. Put into your own words the old woman's argument why someone's being ugly is not a good reason not to marry someone.
5. Do you agree with the old woman's arguments?
6. How do you think the Wife's tale reflects who she is?
25 comments:
number 3 and 6(...ill do number one a bit later)
2. "being poor is not a good reason not to marry someone"
it really doesn't matter how much money ANYONE has...it just that your in love. As long as your happy and in love with a person that you'er SURE you want to spend the rest of your life with.....money doesn't matter, it shouldn't even be considered to be on the lists of why i should marry or not.
6. I definitely think this tale reflects who this lady, the story teller, is. Maybe she can relate to it....maybe it WAS her in the story. Maybe she experienced it (related to it). She was in love!!!!! I think this story also reflects her cleverness, intelligence, joyfulness, exuberence and humor!!!!!
im not quite sure but is the old woman talking to the husband before/during/after the marriage??????? SHe is definetly talking a lot about love, life and marriage between two people???
i think what happens is the woman gives the man a choice between having her ugly but obeying or having her beautiful but in charge.
he chose the latter and it seems like it was the right choice, or the story was implying it, because they end up happy.
I sort of agree. I agree that these things are not important. I think they are important when picking a husband or wife because they are superficial to want.
it is possible I mean worldly when I say superficial.
If you are married to someone who is poor,ugly or has no family connections you probably won't love them any way. Its not that you should not look for these qualities when choosing a spouse, it is that you should not think highly of these things at all. you cant stop being shallow when when your choosing a spouse.
sorry turner but money does matter. I think maybe money cant buy happiness( or love) but without money one is doomed to an exorbitant amount of stress.
Okay - an attempt at a summary of the most recent passage:
It seems that the knight is terribly ashamed of his wife, particularly her low status. He seems to equate low status with being loathsome and high status with nobility. His wife disagrees however, and suggests that even sons of high class noble men can be shameful, no matter what family they are from. She believes that wealth and poverty lies not in status or money, but in how much or little you desire. Then she, in her quasi-magical nature gives him a choice of stability of character; nobility, or beauty. He responds, saying that he wants her to make that decision, thus giving her the power in the marriage, what she said earlier all women desire. Because he has given her what she most desires, she becomes beautiful and good, and they live happily ever after.
Now to answer prompt 2:
The old woman argues that someone's family status has no bearing on someone's behavior, so that one should marry for character rather than status. On a side note, I wonder how her offer plays into this. She can't change her status, and replaces status with "beauty" in her offer. Does beauty equal status for women in this story? How are beauty and status connected for women in this story?
GRETE - yes, of course but no relationship or marriage DOESN'T have stress?? No marriage or relationship is perfect...unless you Romeo and Juliet.... wait ......nevermind bad analogy....whatever
i guess money SHOULDN'T matter, but the world we live in today just makes it so that it DOES matter
Jake, i STRONGLY agree!!!! (obviously)
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2. She basically says that being poor is no good reason to marry someone. She thinks it's about love and nothing else really and that wealth isn't to be thought of when marriage is at hand.
I agree with her very much so. Although wealth may tempt someone to marry as it sometimes does in life there is no way to actually be happy other than to love and be loved in return. (Quote from Nature Boy, Moulin Rouge)
Thanks!
The reason the old woman is saying that being born to someone with good ancestors and with wealth does not mean much because they may not be good people anyway. The woman says that it does not matter if your father or grandfather was a good man because that does not mean his son will be. Just because someone is wealthy does not mean that they are a good person with good manners and characteristics. She said that God does not see if people are wealthy or have a good father but sees what each individual is like. Even if a man can provide his wife with money that does not mean he will be a good husband, who knows he may be a nasty vil man despite of his lineage. Overall the woman is saying that what's inside is most important not the outside and that if two people are in love they should not let what they were born into get in the way.
prompt 4 and 5.)
The old woman is trying to say that uglyness is not the reason why you would not marry someone since that does not really matter and what matters is that the old woman will be a good wife for the man. I think mainly what the old woman is trying to say out of all these arguments is that what ever you do not like about the woman, that is not a good reason to not make her your wife since there are also parts that you love about her. I think that the point that Turner made about the fact that no marriage is perfect is very important in this subject. Even though you always will have some parts that you do not like about someone, it is important to not focus on those points and think about positive things too. I agree since everyone thought this way we wouldn't have conflicts and it would be a peaceful world so I think that it is important to not concentrate on the person's physical features and status but look at what is inside them.
prompt 2:
She basically is saying that when you are in love the money doesnt matter to you especially when it comes to marriage. When you get married you should be thinking of love not how much money you get from marrying someone.
Rocco! i love you for quoting moulin rouge! "the greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." <3
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Prompt one, or an attempt thereof:
The witch (ugly old dirty lady) has begun her impressive monologue on the nature of nobility in regards to birth and class. She talks a great deal about how social rank may be passed patrilineally, but not grace, nobility of character. Then she talks of money, and the virtue of having little; those without don't want and are thus content. She mentions Jesus' voluntary poverty as an example for us all. She also references lots of old greek philosophers who maintained willing poverty. She then briefly references beauty as having no effect on moral character- would one choose beauty over moral character? That is her next question in fact. Would the husband like a smokin' young wife of moral ineptitude, or an ugly witch to serve him well the rest of his days? As Jake said, he is effectively giving the woman power in the marriage relationship, freeing her, releasing her, to become beautiful AND chaste. They live happily ever after.
Prompt 6:
This story's outcome corresponds so closely with the wife's background personality, it becomes almost allegorical of her own situation. Her young husband, she being the witch, has not yet become "meek" though. She is at the troubled intersection of remaining ugly, yet meek and chaste, and a return to an honorless sort of beauty. I think she still really want's to wait for her young husband to give in, though. Will he? We'll never know.
Yes, the wife believes as she is talking to her husband that people are not born with the heritage of nobility, rather that what is important in nobility is one's upbringing and the amount of nobility God decides to bestow upon them.
It's Hunter!
I'm doing Prompt 3...
Someone being poor isn't a good reason to marry someone because they can't give you what you need. They could give you love, but they wouldn't be able to pay for food or clothes or anything for the family.
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2. I agree withy rocco with the fact that she doesnt want to marry because love is what really counts , she can be tempted as many others are. I mean if you had the chance to live the life of a celcbrity wouuld you pass that up. (I would im just saying for her instance) I thought the way rocco said she doesnt think o fmoney when marrige is the subject is very cevery and true.
I am doing #5..which means I am going to do a short reflection on all of her arguements:
2+3= The woman's arguement about why social status and wealth doesn't matter makes complete sense to me.The value or virtue of a person certainly has little or no affiliation with their money.
4= This one confused me a bit...but when I figured it out,I do agree that it is true but I think it's a very lame arguement.
Here are the two lines where she states her the belief behind her arguement.
359 For dirt and age, as prosperous I may be,
360 Are mighty wardens over chastity.
If you didn't know already- warden means a guard or official of a prison and chastity means virginity or purity. So the women is virtually arguing that you shouldn't not marry someone because they are ugly because you will have no problem staying pure. When people get married I don't know how much they are concerning themselves with staying pure.
This is Sofia...
2 + 3.I think what the old woman is basically saying is that someone's family status is not what is important-it's the person them self that matters, not the wealth or status of the family that they come from.
6. I think the Wife's tale reflects her past experiences. She's an older woman, so she has most likely seen many different instances of people marrying someone based on looks, wealth, or status. Her tale reflects, in my opinion, her good ethics.
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