Try to find connections between the reading we did in class--the Achilles-Priam episode--and tonight's reading in Lavinia. OR choose a detail from either reading and think about it and come up with an inference based on it.
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These two readings seem at first to be very different, but there are similarities. In both stories, the main characters (Aeneas and Priam) are reaching out to a former enemy. This is more of a surface connection, but their intents are a more interesting connection. They are both seeking these enemies to put them at ease. Priam can't sleep or eat after his son's death, and he seeks Achilles to get the body of Hector to calm his grief. The body of Hector is the symbol of Priam's unrest, and with the support of the burial, he is able to be at ease. In Aeneas' case, he seeks to put old problems (the fact that they both were trying to kill each other) behind him so his city is safe and protected. Both Priam and Aeneas are also forced to be objective in their quests for peace and support. Priam must hate Achilles for killing his son and disrespecting his body, and Aeneas must hate Diomedes for trying twice to kill him. Yet they must have balanced views on these incidents to make them bearable; both of them having to understand that these acts were partially "okay" in the situations (war) that they sprouted from.
Sorry I wrote such a long blog post!
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I agree with Jake's opinion. I caught that, too. However, I would like to maybe twist the similarity a tiny bit more...
Jake said that they are similar because Priam and Aeneas are both seeking "enemies to put then at ease." That is true. And he gave reasons (with out Hector, Priam was unable to control his grief and Aeneas wanted to keep his city safe). However, I think there is more of a similarity in that than was mentioned. I feel that (having read the Iliad cover-to-cover several times) Hector is the cities hope. He was their "guardian" as Priam states. Without him, their city of Troy isn't safe. Priam needed to get Hector's body and to pay the proper respects to it, so that not only would HE feel better, but Troy would have a chance. Hector was Troy's best and it was as if Priam thought that if he could get the body back, Hector's power and abilities would live on and protect Troy from Greece.
So, I think that Aeneas' quest to make good with an old enemy in order to keep his land safe, is very much the same as Priam going to Achilles to request Hector's body. In my opinion, both Priam and Aeneas were out to do these acts for their people, for their land, for their safety. Although, I do agree Priam had a second layer of reasoning, which was more personal, where I dont believe Aeneas would have done so if he didnt feel it was completely necisary.
Sorry, if it's so long!
I think that it is pretty obvious what is similar in both of these stories. Two people who dislike each other strongly or even hate each other are trying to work their issues out so that there is no more war and tension between the two. But I agree with Rosemund that this is more than just trying to make "freinds" but more about trying to keep another war from happening and to keep Greece cities at peace with one another.
This also shows a difference between the two stories. In this case it is for Aeneas' land but in Priam's case it is for himself, so he can sleep at not and not be constantly upset.
i meant to say that I agree with Renee not Rosemund
oops
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In both Lavinia and the Iliad excerpts the theme of racism due to war grudges is a significant deciding feature. When the Rutulians and Volscians attack Lavinium it is primarily because of the results/events of the last war. A more precise example of this theme, however, is when Aeneas has to go visit Diomedes, an enemy of the seige of Troy. He doesn't trust this former enemy and he himself describes their conversation to his wife, "we fought the whole battle of Troy over again and ended in a treaty."
When Priam goes to visit Achilles he despises him for what he has done to his son, and must still kiss his hands and beg for mercy from his enemy. Achilles weeps for his father while Priam tells his story, and the two end with an agreement of peace for 12 days and the returning of Hector's body, as well as Achilles showing his hospitality to Priam.
To end with an inference, then, I could say that:
War creates prejudice and bitterness but the pain of war can also tie bonds between former enemies.
Oh oh! And another example of this is when the Latins and Trojans in Lavinium unite in one cause of fighting off the attacker. Aeneas points this out.
Ok, I'm done. This is Rosamund.
wow... everyone is writing a long blog post.. sorry but I can't write a long one...
The stories that we have been reading these days (Iliad and Lavinia included) talk about war and the conlcusions/resaons of war. Also there is always a fight/rebel between two people/groups of people, Troy vs. Lavinium (maybe not...) and Hector vs. Achilles which leads to the events which happen in the part that we read.
I am interested in Lavinia right now because they brought up the horse.. :)
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i agree with everyone!!!!!
we have two very JUICY and SPICY conversations going on between Lavinia and Achilles that i am very much interested in and intrugied by....SSSSOOOO interesting
I very much agree with Alexandra Potts.
I think the similarities are indisputable and very clear. So I'm going with the inference.
"Godlike Achilles, remember your own father... But when he hears your still alive his heart feels joy for everyday he hopes he'll see his dear son come back home from Troy. But I'm completely doomed to misery."
My inference is...
Priam is grieving but is very good as communicating how he feels, unlike the younger, Achilles and Hector.
Thanks!
i think that achilles reacts with anger to almost any negative emotion. when praim asks to have hectors body again achilles gets really mad. he could be annoyed, embarrassed or sad about what happened.
My inference:
Achilles' anger is caused because of his sorrow.
We see this when he weeps for Patroclus and his father after Priam's plea for his son's dead body.
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Hey it's Hunter.
I totally agree with Alex Potts!
I especially like how what she said in the differences about how they are after two different things. I think what they're after shows a lot about their characters. The fact that Aeneas is doing it for his land shows he likes to help people and is kind to everyone...but the fact the Priam is doing this for himself shows that he is somewhat selfish. I think this shows a deeper connection with the fact that, like Jake said, their intentions are similar, but their personal reasons for doing it are completely different.
I think long blog posts are happy!
I choose, the first prompt!
Alrighty... Everyone got the "both-imploring-former-enemy-for-help" one... But I feel there is more imploring going one here. We must listen o Lavinia as she wails to Aeneas never to leave again. She falls to her knees and hugs him and kisses him, and gives lots of reasons: for the baby's sake, for my sake... But we know it is partly that Lavinia has knowledge he does not. Lavinia is aware that he will die soon, and wants to spend all the time possible with her husband before he must leave. In this way, Priam implores Achilles for the body of his great son Hector- we see in both, too, that the one being implor-ee begins to weep for the implorer. The difference in this story is that Achilles is the one with the foresight of the gods; he must give Priam the body, or there will be trouble. I think we might also compare Hector's body to Aeneas'. There are the obvious disparities, exemplar gratis one living, the other dead. But... the similarity here is the importance of the bodies, living or dead. Aeneas' body is as important to Lavinia's security as Hector's is to Priam's- I agree with Renee's interpretation. The bodies must be retrieved (and kept) for the good of the person retrieving. The retriever puts aside his/her differences and ambitions for the holder; he must try for what he wants.
My inference on the reading of lavinia is
She is not so wise on the socail aspects of her civilization, but more focused on her own personal sipritual journay with the poet.
She seems to ask multiple question about the war and basically what's going on around her. But she seems really foucesed and talks a lot about the her dreams with the poet of the anid
I agree with Rachel on the inferance.
It does not seem like he is just being angry as an angry person. He anger is driven by sometime and I agree that it is sadness.
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This is Sofia...
Honestly, after I read the story of Hector and Achilles in history class, I automatically had a picture in my mind of Achilles being "bad". He was merciless in his killing of Hector and just seemed down right no good. After reading the Achilles-Priam episode, I was shocked to find Achilles actually sympathetic with Hector's father Priam. I expected him to scoff in the face of Priam, but instead, he actually wept with him! For example, "Priam finished. His words roused in Achilles a desire to weep for his own father. Taking Priam's hand, he gently moved him back."
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WOW everyone wrote such long blogs tonight! I feel like we are just getting better and better each time we do these!
I agree with Jake and Renee. The connection between the two readings is "reaching out to a former enemy" and "enemies to put them at ease." Aeneas and Priam are both the main characters in the readings for tonight and from class and the relationship i found was the relationships they had with their enemies.
This is Alison Remmers!
I am soo sorry for blogging soo late! I had a late rehearsal and it took me a long time to get home so I dont think anyone will be blogging after me but i will be checking in, in a few minutes. Again I a m very sorry.
I agree with danny....
It shows in the story that his anger is driven by something. In the story there are many times that it shows that his anger is driven by sadness.
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