For students to share comments about the evening's reading assignment, and for miscellaneous class assignments
Wednesday, November 19, 2008
An image of the Buddha.
1. Try to summarize what it is that Siddhartha is saying to the Buddha.
AND/OR
2. Is Siddhartha being wise in this chapter or not, as far as you can tell?
24 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Well he is very wise in the fact because he really wants to connect with budda. And He shows how much he admires him, and the fact about what he says to him shows how much of his wiseness. He shows that he would stand up to budda and tells asks him some thhings and expoliots flaws in it.
Well, I think to determine whether Siddartha's actions are wise or not, we have to know his goal, which is not to receive more knowledge but to find the real and final truth, awakening or enlightnment. He chooses to depart from the Buddha because he knows that even through the Buddha's great teaching, he will not be able to gain this enlightment. He feels that you can not "teach" enlightment, rather you must find it. For Siddartha, I think this is a very wise decision, because he recognizes that he will not be able to reach his goal if he stays with Buddha. But, his friend Govinda makes a very different decision, and stays with the Buddha. Does this mean Govinda is not as wise as Siddartha? I don't believe it does, because Govinda has different goals from Siddartha, and these teachings will set him towards his goals rather than set him back. It's interesting that the Buddha wants to teach. Is Buddha trying to teach enlightenment? Is he just trying to teach a different way to lead life? What is his goal? I personally am not sure, but I think he hopes that through his teachings, he will teach them the qualities to get to this ideal stage, and then let them seek out their own journeys. I think the Semana's taught Siddartha this. In opposition to Plato's ideal; that the educated have to teach and tell the uneducated, Buddha is trying to teach his followers tools, enabling them to learn themselves and think themselves.
"We samanas...are seeking deliverance from the ego. Now, if I were one of your disciplines...I fear that my ego would actaully live on and grow big........" Pg 33 bottom
I think what he is saying is that his "religion" that he is in now is contradictory to the Buddah's "religion" or discipline......even though Siddhartha takes a bit of issue with the samana practices.....he notices that they both claim that they are correct, right, true, and worthy of the world.....and the both have their problems!!!!!!
I think Siddhartha IS indeed being wise........almost too wise....the buddah warns him of this!!!!!!!!! Althugh he is amking some very interesting points......they can turn into dangerous things like hatred, jeolousy and angry...which leads to awful events and catastrophies!!!!!
Gr the blog deleted my post again. Here's my second: prompt 2. Siddartha is being wise by choosing his own path. He himself is not achieving nirvana by listening to someone else's teachings based on their personal experience of it. Nirvana could be different for everyone. Siddartha is smart, and should therefor question what others tell him. His intelligence would be put to waist if he followed what one man told him.
2. Siddhartha is being wise in this chapter as far as I can tell because although he is questioning the Buddha and saying "that gap is your Teaching about the overcoming of the world, about deliverance." He's being wise here because the after he says this, the Buddha says, "good for you for pondering it so deeply." Then the Buddha basically tells Siddhartha that he is being wise because he is trying to find the truth. Why is the Buddha teaching them how to overcome the world?...this is what Siddhartha is wondering. On the other hand, he may not be showing he's wise because the Buddha says, "Beware of too much cleverness!" Which says the Buddha may just think that Siddhartha is speaking cleverly, not being wise. I know I'm contradicting myself there, but I don't think he's being completely wise or naive. He's being both.
the buddha tells siddhartha that his purpose in his teachings is not to explain things or even tell what is true but to make people happy. the buddha listened to what siddhartha has to say and is not interested in arguing but telling siddhartha what he wants to know.
I think that Siddartha id being very wise. He is taling his own path because he thinks that in the end he will be able to be like Buhdda, at the center of his ego. It is clever of him to realize that Buhdda had done this on his own, he meditated and he grew in knowledge all on his own. Siddartha is doing this because he wants to make sure it is true and not some illusion he is creating with his mind. He is overall putting a lot of thought into what he wants to do and that in it's self is extremley wise of him.
I think once again he is childish because he is curious but I also think he is wise and that he is good at being curious. Often curiousity is bad but in this it's good. I like him a lot. I feel like when siddartha talks to Buddha all it really is is him telling him he is a fan.
i think the character of the buddah is a little mysterious
he listens to Siddartha intently but always comments back to hi something that will make him go away or stop talking or realize something.....the buddah also seems a bit intimidated or challenged...which is exactly what Siddhartha is trying to do but in a polite way....
I think the Buddah reacts to Siddartha becuase he never had a encounter like the one we read before.....no one has ever really come up to the buddah and told him what was wrong with his religion or practices and how it differs fro others and how both claim they are right...........interesing!!!!
Siddhartha is basically saying in this chapter to Buddha is that he is doubting what he says. He doubts his teaching but he says he will leave all teaching because what Buddha is teaching you cannot know this by being told this but you need to learn by experiencing the teachings. Siddhartha is also worried about his ego growing if he stays with Buddha. He tells Buddha that he will always remember that day but he must leave him. No other teaching will "entice" him because Buddha's did not "entice" him.
2.) I thought that he was very wise because as Mr. Gregg says, "to look through the goggles" he did not believe that buddhism was right for him while listening to it but later on comprehended what he has heard and made meaning out of it. Usually people in religion just believe that their religion is right and believes the priecher/orator so they do not have a specific reason. (PLEASE do not take this as an offensive thing because I do not really meant it that way. I am just trying to say that the tales that they hear and the books that they have are the evidence.) Compared to this, Siddhartha actually comprehends what he has just heard and also compares it with the one which he heard from the samanas and so this shows that he takes his choices very seriously, and I thought that that was wise.
I agree with Nami. Often people believe things without really thinking about them. I just wanted to comment and point out that it is often all about the way a person is brought up. If someone is raised being told that there is one truth and one person to tell it to everyone, that someone will believe it, as it is the only thing they know. In this story that is not as much the case, as people are taught to spend hours of their day concidering what is right. They give everything up for this, and that is what Siddartha has done. Hard thinking.
Hello! Siddartha approaches the Buddha so as to let him know that he is unable to follow the teachings of Guatama any longer. That is to say, he necessarily can't follow the teachings of the Buddha. Why? Siddartha starts out very nicely, speaking to Guatama with praise and elegance. He says how muh he loves the Buddha's teachings for their wordliness: the teachings' explanation requires no gods, no myths. Instead, he mentions their beauty in an understanding of the "unity" inherent in the world, if that makes sense. Siddartha praises the Buddah's unified world view. Everything has a place, everything is orderly. But there is a problem. And this problem Siddartha puts out in fullness, but in ambiguity. He says that "this unity and consistency is nevertheless interrupted in one place: something alien, something new is pouring through a small crack into this world of unity, something that was not there before, something that cannot be shown or proved". Is this a flaw I wonder, or does it offend Siddartha in its ambiguity; he needs to learn of the gap, to understand it, but it is impossible? For I do believe, in the rest of the Buddha's teachings, Siddartha is also praising his own ability to comprehend them. If what I'm saying is what the author truly intended, does this make him wise? The Buddha himself advises Siddartha to "avoid too much cleverness". Siddartha, is too clever for his own good? I wonder if he can possibly find a path to enlightenment, his own path, if it is cloudy by excessive thought and suffering thereof... There is certainly wisdom in clarity, in spareness, in necessity. Will Siddartha realize what he then must?
What Siddhartha is basically saying to the Buddha is that indeed, Buddha is wise and his teachings are great, but can't be delivered through a teaching. The Buddha went through his "hour of illumination" and the teaching about this is thorough and amazing, but one cannot really understand and feel what the Buddha did unless they went through it themselves. Siddartha basically does not want to be taught, but instead seek deliverance on his own.
I agree with Nami also. If people are told that something is true than they are going to believe it. If from when I was born to now people told me that I was going to die at age 16 that would be something I would believe. I would think that is the normal dieing age and just move on with my life. So for people to believe things they can't be told the false things to many times, because even though they know what's true is true they sometimes can't believe it.
I feel like Siddhartha's actions in this chapter are much like a young athlete who goes to see their favorite Athlete.Someone who goes to see their favorite athlete isn't necessarily spending time watching and talking with them to learn more about the sport- but to get to know the PERSON they admire so much. I believe that this is Siddhartha's true goal in this circumstance. Yes, he is looking for truth....but in this instance he isn't asking the Buddha to tell him what truth is, or learn anything of real substance from him....but rather he is simply trying to learn from Buddha by watching him- as an example. For example...on pg. 27: "Siddhartha did not respond. He was not very curious about the teaching ; he did not believe it could teach him anything new;after all he, just like Govinda, had heard the contents of Buddha's Teaching over and over, albeit from secondhand and thirdhand accounts. But he peered attentively at Gautama's head, at his shoulders, at his feet, at his silently hanging hand, and it seemed as if every joint of every finger of this hand contained a teaching, as if it spoke, breathed, shone, was scented with truth......This man was holy."
I don't know whether we can really determine if this is wise of Siddhartha or not- what he is doing is a natural habit of humans...but perhaps that would make him unwise- because he is letting himself fall to the natural man within him. I am sure he could've learned SOMETHING new from Buddha!
24 comments:
Well he is very wise in the fact because he really wants to connect with budda. And He shows how much he admires him, and the fact about what he says to him shows how much of his wiseness. He shows that he would stand up to budda and tells asks him some thhings and expoliots flaws in it.
Well, I think to determine whether Siddartha's actions are wise or not, we have to know his goal, which is not to receive more knowledge but to find the real and final truth, awakening or enlightnment. He chooses to depart from the Buddha because he knows that even through the Buddha's great teaching, he will not be able to gain this enlightment. He feels that you can not "teach" enlightment, rather you must find it. For Siddartha, I think this is a very wise decision, because he recognizes that he will not be able to reach his goal if he stays with Buddha. But, his friend Govinda makes a very different decision, and stays with the Buddha. Does this mean Govinda is not as wise as Siddartha? I don't believe it does, because Govinda has different goals from Siddartha, and these teachings will set him towards his goals rather than set him back. It's interesting that the Buddha wants to teach. Is Buddha trying to teach enlightenment? Is he just trying to teach a different way to lead life? What is his goal? I personally am not sure, but I think he hopes that through his teachings, he will teach them the qualities to get to this ideal stage, and then let them seek out their own journeys. I think the Semana's taught Siddartha this. In opposition to Plato's ideal; that the educated have to teach and tell the uneducated, Buddha is trying to teach his followers tools, enabling them to learn themselves and think themselves.
"We samanas...are seeking deliverance from the ego. Now, if I were one of your disciplines...I fear that my ego would actaully live on and grow big........" Pg 33 bottom
I think what he is saying is that his "religion" that he is in now is contradictory to the Buddah's "religion" or discipline......even though Siddhartha takes a bit of issue with the samana practices.....he notices that they both claim that they are correct, right, true, and worthy of the world.....and the both have their problems!!!!!!
I think Siddhartha IS indeed being wise........almost too wise....the buddah warns him of this!!!!!!!!! Althugh he is amking some very interesting points......they can turn into dangerous things like hatred, jeolousy and angry...which leads to awful events and catastrophies!!!!!
very interesting!!!
Gr the blog deleted my post again. Here's my second:
prompt 2. Siddartha is being wise by choosing his own path. He himself is not achieving nirvana by listening to someone else's teachings based on their personal experience of it. Nirvana could be different for everyone. Siddartha is smart, and should therefor question what others tell him. His intelligence would be put to waist if he followed what one man told him.
It's Rosamund.
. checking in!!!!!!!!!
Hey it's Hunter :)
I'm doing numero dos
2. Siddhartha is being wise in this chapter as far as I can tell because although he is questioning the Buddha and saying "that gap is your Teaching about the overcoming of the world, about deliverance." He's being wise here because the after he says this, the Buddha says, "good for you for pondering it so deeply." Then the Buddha basically tells Siddhartha that he is being wise because he is trying to find the truth. Why is the Buddha teaching them how to overcome the world?...this is what Siddhartha is wondering. On the other hand, he may not be showing he's wise because the Buddha says, "Beware of too much cleverness!" Which says the Buddha may just think that Siddhartha is speaking cleverly, not being wise. I know I'm contradicting myself there, but I don't think he's being completely wise or naive. He's being both.
the buddha tells siddhartha that his purpose in his teachings is not to explain things or even tell what is true but to make people happy. the buddha listened to what siddhartha has to say and is not interested in arguing but telling siddhartha what he wants to know.
i really agree with what hunter is saying, i like that you differentiated cleverness and wisdom.
(is cleverness a word?)
I think that Siddartha id being very wise. He is taling his own path because he thinks that in the end he will be able to be like Buhdda, at the center of his ego. It is clever of him to realize that Buhdda had done this on his own, he meditated and he grew in knowledge all on his own. Siddartha is doing this because he wants to make sure it is true and not some illusion he is creating with his mind. He is overall putting a lot of thought into what he wants to do and that in it's self is extremley wise of him.
I think once again he is childish because he is curious but I also think he is wise and that he is good at being curious. Often curiousity is bad but in this it's good. I like him a lot. I feel like when siddartha talks to Buddha all it really is is him telling him he is a fan.
Anyway... I'm pretty busy and I'm off.
Thanks!
-Rocco
Checking in.
i think the character of the buddah is a little mysterious
he listens to Siddartha intently but always comments back to hi something that will make him go away or stop talking or realize something.....the buddah also seems a bit intimidated or challenged...which is exactly what Siddhartha is trying to do but in a polite way....
I think the Buddah reacts to Siddartha becuase he never had a encounter like the one we read before.....no one has ever really come up to the buddah and told him what was wrong with his religion or practices and how it differs fro others and how both claim they are right...........interesing!!!!
Prompt number one!!
Siddhartha is basically saying in this chapter to Buddha is that he is doubting what he says. He doubts his teaching but he says he will leave all teaching because what Buddha is teaching you cannot know this by being told this but you need to learn by experiencing the teachings. Siddhartha is also worried about his ego growing if he stays with Buddha. He tells Buddha that he will always remember that day but he must leave him. No other teaching will "entice" him because Buddha's did not "entice" him.
This is Alison Remmers! <3 :) yay!
2.) I thought that he was very wise because as Mr. Gregg says, "to look through the goggles" he did not believe that buddhism was right for him while listening to it but later on comprehended what he has heard and made meaning out of it. Usually people in religion just believe that their religion is right and believes the priecher/orator so they do not have a specific reason. (PLEASE do not take this as an offensive thing because I do not really meant it that way. I am just trying to say that the tales that they hear and the books that they have are the evidence.) Compared to this, Siddhartha actually comprehends what he has just heard and also compares it with the one which he heard from the samanas and so this shows that he takes his choices very seriously, and I thought that that was wise.
I agree with Nami. Often people believe things without really thinking about them. I just wanted to comment and point out that it is often all about the way a person is brought up. If someone is raised being told that there is one truth and one person to tell it to everyone, that someone will believe it, as it is the only thing they know. In this story that is not as much the case, as people are taught to spend hours of their day concidering what is right. They give everything up for this, and that is what Siddartha has done. Hard thinking.
It's Rosamund.
Blog prompt one and two, smoooshed:
Hello! Siddartha approaches the Buddha so as to let him know that he is unable to follow the teachings of Guatama any longer. That is to say, he necessarily can't follow the teachings of the Buddha. Why? Siddartha starts out very nicely, speaking to Guatama with praise and elegance. He says how muh he loves the Buddha's teachings for their wordliness: the teachings' explanation requires no gods, no myths. Instead, he mentions their beauty in an understanding of the "unity" inherent in the world, if that makes sense. Siddartha praises the Buddah's unified world view. Everything has a place, everything is orderly. But there is a problem. And this problem Siddartha puts out in fullness, but in ambiguity. He says that "this unity and consistency is nevertheless interrupted in one place: something alien, something new is pouring through a small crack into this world of unity, something that was not there before, something that cannot be shown or proved". Is this a flaw I wonder, or does it offend Siddartha in its ambiguity; he needs to learn of the gap, to understand it, but it is impossible? For I do believe, in the rest of the Buddha's teachings, Siddartha is also praising his own ability to comprehend them. If what I'm saying is what the author truly intended, does this make him wise? The Buddha himself advises Siddartha to "avoid too much cleverness". Siddartha, is too clever for his own good? I wonder if he can possibly find a path to enlightenment, his own path, if it is cloudy by excessive thought and suffering thereof... There is certainly wisdom in clarity, in spareness, in necessity. Will Siddartha realize what he then must?
So many questions!
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This is Sofia...
What Siddhartha is basically saying to the Buddha is that indeed, Buddha is wise and his teachings are great, but can't be delivered through a teaching. The Buddha went through his "hour of illumination" and the teaching about this is thorough and amazing, but one cannot really understand and feel what the Buddha did unless they went through it themselves. Siddartha basically does not want to be taught, but instead seek deliverance on his own.
Checking in...
i am surprised right now because it is already 11 o clock and there are only 20 comments!
wow...
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I agree with Nami also. If people are told that something is true than they are going to believe it. If from when I was born to now people told me that I was going to die at age 16 that would be something I would believe. I would think that is the normal dieing age and just move on with my life. So for people to believe things they can't be told the false things to many times, because even though they know what's true is true they sometimes can't believe it.
THis is DANNY
I feel like Siddhartha's actions in this chapter are much like a young athlete who goes to see their favorite Athlete.Someone who goes to see their favorite athlete isn't necessarily spending time watching and talking with them to learn more about the sport- but to get to know the PERSON they admire so much. I believe that this is Siddhartha's true goal in this circumstance. Yes, he is looking for truth....but in this instance he isn't asking the Buddha to tell him what truth is, or learn anything of real substance from him....but rather he is simply trying to learn from Buddha by watching him- as an example. For example...on pg. 27:
"Siddhartha did not respond. He was not very curious about the teaching ; he did not believe it could teach him anything new;after all he, just like Govinda, had heard the contents of Buddha's Teaching over and over, albeit from secondhand and thirdhand accounts. But he peered attentively at Gautama's head, at his shoulders, at his feet, at his silently hanging hand, and it seemed as if every joint of every finger of this hand contained a teaching, as if it spoke, breathed, shone, was scented with truth......This man was holy."
I don't know whether we can really determine if this is wise of Siddhartha or not- what he is doing is a natural habit of humans...but perhaps that would make him unwise- because he is letting himself fall to the natural man within him. I am sure he could've learned SOMETHING new from Buddha!
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